Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brenda Lance on August 3, 2009 at 10:43am

Don't know about Grizzlies in Yellowstone/Tetons, but grew up with them in Alaska. Just make sure you follow all the steps like wearing some kind of noise makers on your shoes so not to surprise them; if you do have an encounter, DON"T RUN!, wave your hands, packs, anything large and yell. Bears' eyesight is not great and they will think you are larger than you really are and they will tend to back away. If not, play dead if attacked covering your head and the back of your neck. There are MANY stories of people suriving bear attacks to lead a normal life...yes, there are many who have died, but a lot of surviviors live to tell their stories. Call the park and they should be able to give you updated information on the wildlife. I'll tell you, I'd rather deal with a grizzly than a cougar or bobcat any day. Grizzlies at least don't stalk you...it's pretty weird to be walking down a trail, have the hair on the back of your neck begin to stand on end, turn around and find one of those big cats behind you!!!! I'm sure if you look up grizzlies in yellowstone/tetons you might find some information. Sandra should also have some good information for you.

Permalink Reply by Sandra on August 3, 2009 at 1:02pm

Some precautions: 1) Take some bear spray (super magnum https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=18...), 2) store your food in bear cans (http://www.counterassault.com/html/bearkeg.html), 3) don't sleep in the same clothes you cook in, 4) when walking, hang a couple of metal cooking utensils or bells or both on your backpack so they make noise, 5) don't pitch your tent right in the middle of a trail, and 6) be aware but it is not necessary to get all anxious and scared -- bear encounters are rare. You just need to take precautions and be ready if you do encounter a bear. Frankly, if I saw a grizzly in the wild (from a distance) I would be excited and consider myself lucky.

For the bear spray -- there are all kinds. Get a bear spray that has 1% to 2% Capsaicin, sprays 25 feet or more for at least 6 seconds, has at least 7.9 ounces of net weight or 225 grams of spray, and sprays in a cloud pattern spray. This is according to the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC). Counter Assault is one good brand.
Take some M-80 firecrackers to scare off bears -- better yet, take a large caliber gun (just kidding). You can also use flares or those loud airhorns they use at football games. Take two forms of deterrents -- spray and something else.
Read this -- http://www.yellowstone.net/wildlife/grizzly.htm -- about Yellowstone Grizzlies. Also read Read Bearman's guide to the griz's of Yellowstone at http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/bears.html.
But don't let the bears keep you away from experiencing a great backpacking trip! Relax and have fun!

Permalink Reply by Sandra on August 3, 2009 at 4:52pm

You probably have much more direct experience with grizzlies, Brenda. All I've encountered are various black bears. Love 'em.

Brenda Lance said:

Don't know about Grizzlies in Yellowstone/Tetons, but grew up with them in Alaska. Just make sure you follow all the steps like wearing some kind of noise makers on your shoes so not to surprise them; if you do have an encounter, DON"T RUN!, wave your hands, packs, anything large and yell. Bears' eyesight is not great and they will think you are larger than you really are and they will tend to back away. If not, play dead if attacked covering your head and the back of your neck. There are MANY stories of people suriving bear attacks to lead a normal life...yes, there are many who have died, but a lot of surviviors live to tell their stories. Call the park and they should be able to give you updated information on the wildlife. I'll tell you, I'd rather deal with a grizzly than a cougar or bobcat any day. Grizzlies at least don't stalk you...it's pretty weird to be walking down a trail, have the hair on the back of your neck begin to stand on end, turn around and find one of those big cats behind you!!!! I'm sure if you look up grizzlies in yellowstone/tetons you might find some information. Sandra should also have some good information for you.

Permalink Reply by Eve Wills on August 5, 2009 at 6:22am

In my opinion, people are way too worried about bears in Yellowstone (a fear commonly referred to as Bearanoia ;)). From the time Yellowstone was created as a National Park in 1872, there have been 5 bear-related fatalities, and a couple of dozen injuries. My husband and I both guide in the park, my husband for 30 years. I have an outdoor career spanning 19 years, and spend thousands of hours in grizzly country outside the park every year, and have never had a real incident where I felt seriously threatened by a bear (moose are another matter). Almost all of our friends are hard-core outdoors people or fellow guides, and not one of them has been attacked or has been forced to discharge their pepper spray in the course of a charge by a bear. Your chance of being hurt in the park by a bear during a few days of hiking well-used trails is about as high as winning the lottery. Every year, dozens of people are injured or killed in the park in car accidents, so you would be much wiser to pay attention to all the terrible drivers.

However, if it'll make you feel better, carry pepper spray-I personally prefer Udap (a recommended brand), because its holster is much better designed than Counter Assault. Be aware, and watch for bear sign. Avoid closed areas. Don't hike alone, and talk with your hiking partner as you walk, as bears do recognize the human voice and tend to flee. The best defense for avoiding bears is to avoid surprising them, as they want nothing to do with you. One of the best books on bear avoidance is by Dave Smith's "Back Country Bear Basics-the Definitive Guide for Avoiding Unpleasant Encounters". Don't wear bear bells. They've actually been shown to attract bears, who are curious critters and besides, they're so annoying to those around you, you're more likely to be killed by other hikers than a bear ;).

So have fun, and stop worrying, seriously! Unless you're actually going into a remote place in Yellowstone like the Thoroughfare, you're probably not even going to see a bear in the backcountry during high tourist season. There's simply too many people, and bears in the backcountry generally avoid being where people are.

I just read the comment above this one. With all due respect to the commenter, with grizzlies in Yellowstone and Glacier Parks, you should avoid eye contact, talk softly and back slowly away. Avoid behavior that could be interpreted by a grizzly as aggressive, especially in the presence of a sow with cubs, who are responsible for most maulings in the course of protecting their young. It's a no-brainer that projecting threatening behavior in the presence of a protective mother is likely to get you hurt. The link to Kevin Sander's (Bearman's) website is good as Kevin knows what he's talking about. Again, the best thing is to stop worrying as the chance of you being hurt by a bear inside the park during tourist season really is miniscule.

All the best.

Permalink Reply by dmr on August 6, 2009 at 8:44am

Thanks for all the good info. What about Moose? How does one avoid them if encountered on a hiking trail?

Eve Wills said:

In my opinion, people are way too worried about bears in Yellowstone (a fear commonly referred to as Bearanoia ;)). From the time Yellowstone was created as a National Park in 1872, there have been 5 bear-related fatalities, and a couple of dozen injuries. My husband and I both guide in the park, my husband for 30 years. I have an outdoor career spanning 19 years, and spend thousands of hours in grizzly country outside the park every year, and have never had a real incident where I felt seriously threatened by a bear (moose are another matter). Almost all of our friends are hard-core outdoors people or fellow guides, and not one of them has been attacked or has been forced to discharge their pepper spray in the course of a charge by a bear. Your chance of being hurt in the park by a bear during a few days of hiking well-used trails is about as high as winning the lottery. Every year, dozens of people are injured or killed in the park in car accidents, so you would be much wiser to pay attention to all the terrible drivers.

However, if it'll make you feel better, carry pepper spray-I personally prefer Udap (a recommended brand), because its holster is much better designed than Counter Assault. Be aware, and watch for bear sign. Avoid closed areas. Don't hike alone, and talk with your hiking partner as you walk, as bears do recognize the human voice and tend to flee. The best defense for avoiding bears is to avoid surprising them, as they want nothing to do with you. One of the best books on bear avoidance is by Dave Smith's "Back Country Bear Basics-the Definitive Guide for Avoiding Unpleasant Encounters". Don't wear bear bells. They've actually been shown to attract bears, who are curious critters and besides, they're so annoying to those around you, you're more likely to be killed by other hikers than a bear ;).

So have fun, and stop worrying, seriously! Unless you're actually going into a remote place in Yellowstone like the Thoroughfare, you're probably not even going to see a bear in the backcountry during high tourist season. There's simply too many people, and bears in the backcountry generally avoid being where people are.

I just read the comment above this one. With all due respect to the commenter, with grizzlies in Yellowstone and Glacier Parks, you should avoid eye contact, talk softly and back slowly away. Avoid behavior that could be interpreted by a grizzly as aggressive, especially in the presence of a sow with cubs, who are responsible for most maulings in the course of protecting their young. It's a no-brainer that projecting threatening behavior in the presence of a protective mother is likely to get you hurt. The link to Kevin Sander's (Bearman's) website is good as Kevin knows what he's talking about. Again, the best thing is to stop worrying as the chance of you being hurt by a bear inside the park during tourist season really is miniscule.

All the best.

Permalink Reply by Eve Wills on August 8, 2009 at 6:25pm

Actually, I wouldn't worry about moose in Yellowstone, unless you are going to be hiking in the Bechler, the swampier areas near Swan Lake flats or in the vicinity of Cooke City. Most of the park is lousy habitat for moose, and I rarely, if ever see them outside the areas I mentioned. I mentioned them in my post only because I do see lots of moose in odd places in the remote areas where I work. Chances are, if you do get lucky enough to see a moose in Yellowstone, you're not going to be the first to spot it. Just give it a wide berth, and leave the trail to do so, if necessary.

dmr said:

Thanks for all the good info. What about Moose? How does one avoid them if encountered on a hiking trail?

Eve Wills said:

In my opinion, people are way too worried about bears in Yellowstone (a fear commonly referred to as Bearanoia ;)). From the time Yellowstone was created as a National Park in 1872, there have been 5 bear-related fatalities, and a couple of dozen injuries. My husband and I both guide in the park, my husband for 30 years. I have an outdoor career spanning 19 years, and spend thousands of hours in grizzly country outside the park every year, and have never had a real incident where I felt seriously threatened by a bear (moose are another matter). Almost all of our friends are hard-core outdoors people or fellow guides, and not one of them has been attacked or has been forced to discharge their pepper spray in the course of a charge by a bear. Your chance of being hurt in the park by a bear during a few days of hiking well-used trails is about as high as winning the lottery. Every year, dozens of people are injured or killed in the park in car accidents, so you would be much wiser to pay attention to all the terrible drivers.

However, if it'll make you feel better, carry pepper spray-I personally prefer Udap (a recommended brand), because its holster is much better designed than Counter Assault. Be aware, and watch for bear sign. Avoid closed areas. Don't hike alone, and talk with your hiking partner as you walk, as bears do recognize the human voice and tend to flee. The best defense for avoiding bears is to avoid surprising them, as they want nothing to do with you. One of the best books on bear avoidance is by Dave Smith's "Back Country Bear Basics-the Definitive Guide for Avoiding Unpleasant Encounters". Don't wear bear bells. They've actually been shown to attract bears, who are curious critters and besides, they're so annoying to those around you, you're more likely to be killed by other hikers than a bear ;).

So have fun, and stop worrying, seriously! Unless you're actually going into a remote place in Yellowstone like the Thoroughfare, you're probably not even going to see a bear in the backcountry during high tourist season. There's simply too many people, and bears in the backcountry generally avoid being where people are.

I just read the comment above this one. With all due respect to the commenter, with grizzlies in Yellowstone and Glacier Parks, you should avoid eye contact, talk softly and back slowly away. Avoid behavior that could be interpreted by a grizzly as aggressive, especially in the presence of a sow with cubs, who are responsible for most maulings in the course of protecting their young. It's a no-brainer that projecting threatening behavior in the presence of a protective mother is likely to get you hurt. The link to Kevin Sander's (Bearman's) website is good as Kevin knows what he's talking about. Again, the best thing is to stop worrying as the chance of you being hurt by a bear inside the park during tourist season really is miniscule.

All the best.

Permalink Reply by Sandra on August 8, 2009 at 7:31pm

Excellent info, Eve.

Permalink Reply by Brenda Lance on August 10, 2009 at 10:34am

Eve,
I would agree that with you about the backing away slowly and quietly when encountering a grizzly when there is really no threat. In these times the bears may not even know you are there for some period of time, giving one a chance to quietly find another route around the location of the bear. However, my advice and teaching about grizzlies came from natives themselves as well as old timers in Alaska. We did not just live in the larger cities of Anchorage or Fairbanks, but spent a majority of time in the southeast and along the Yukon river in the villages where hunting, hiking, and wandering all over the great outdoors were frequent activities. I remember one incident in which I was with one of the village leaders on an outdoor adventure, when we had an encounter with a grizzly. At first, we did treat the event with quietness and attempted to slowly back away, but that grizzly was not going to be so easily fled. This wise Indian took control of the situation, and did just what I had mentioned above...waving hands, yelling, and told me NOT to run or move!!! I was told to pick up a large stick just in case. After two or three minutes the bear decided he did not want anything to do with us, turned around, and left. There are different ways of handling different situations, and both are correct, it is just a matter of when to use what methods. I would agree that one should try the quiet approach first, but when that does not work, you better make some noise! Even with a sow and her cubs. Times of facing down a bear or moose could be inserted frequently among pages of my own stories of growing up in Alaska. There were times when encountering one of these large animals on a trail, a road, or even a bush plane runway found me standing quietly for at least an hour, face to face with a bear or moose. Most of these facedowns resulted in a mama making sure it was ok for her babies to cross over and that I intended no harm towards her or her offspring. One of the greatest pieces of advice ever given was to use your intuition. Get all the information you can, find out all the different possible situations that could take place and how to handle them, but when it comes right down to the moment, use all your intuitions and instincts to help you determine what to do, hopefully relying on the information tucked away in your brain. However, there may not be enough time to stop and think of that information, and intuition must take over. I would agree that there are probably more car related injuries and deaths compared to animal maulings or deaths, but there are also countless stories I could tell about people minding their own business and having a surprise upon them before they knew it. It does happen, and one cannot be naive. Always be on the alert and aware of your surroundings and be prepared. Usually fear of such situations arises when one does not feel they are well educated, experienced, or prepared. As long as these are in place, one will feel as comfortable in the wilderness as they are in their own home.

Eve Wills said:

In my opinion, people are way too worried about bears in Yellowstone (a fear commonly referred to as Bearanoia ;)). From the time Yellowstone was created as a National Park in 1872, there have been 5 bear-related fatalities, and a couple of dozen injuries. My husband and I both guide in the park, my husband for 30 years. I have an outdoor career spanning 19 years, and spend thousands of hours in grizzly country outside the park every year, and have never had a real incident where I felt seriously threatened by a bear (moose are another matter). Almost all of our friends are hard-core outdoors people or fellow guides, and not one of them has been attacked or has been forced to discharge their pepper spray in the course of a charge by a bear. Your chance of being hurt in the park by a bear during a few days of hiking well-used trails is about as high as winning the lottery. Every year, dozens of people are injured or killed in the park in car accidents, so you would be much wiser to pay attention to all the terrible drivers.

However, if it'll make you feel better, carry pepper spray-I personally prefer Udap (a recommended brand), because its holster is much better designed than Counter Assault. Be aware, and watch for bear sign. Avoid closed areas. Don't hike alone, and talk with your hiking partner as you walk, as bears do recognize the human voice and tend to flee. The best defense for avoiding bears is to avoid surprising them, as they want nothing to do with you. One of the best books on bear avoidance is by Dave Smith's "Back Country Bear Basics-the Definitive Guide for Avoiding Unpleasant Encounters". Don't wear bear bells. They've actually been shown to attract bears, who are curious critters and besides, they're so annoying to those around you, you're more likely to be killed by other hikers than a bear ;).

So have fun, and stop worrying, seriously! Unless you're actually going into a remote place in Yellowstone like the Thoroughfare, you're probably not even going to see a bear in the backcountry during high tourist season. There's simply too many people, and bears in the backcountry generally avoid being where people are.

I just read the comment above this one. With all due respect to the commenter, with grizzlies in Yellowstone and Glacier Parks, you should avoid eye contact, talk softly and back slowly away. Avoid behavior that could be interpreted by a grizzly as aggressive, especially in the presence of a sow with cubs, who are responsible for most maulings in the course of protecting their young. It's a no-brainer that projecting threatening behavior in the presence of a protective mother is likely to get you hurt. The link to Kevin Sander's (Bearman's) website is good as Kevin knows what he's talking about. Again, the best thing is to stop worrying as the chance of you being hurt by a bear inside the park during tourist season really is miniscule.

All the best.

Permalink Reply by Eve Wills on August 15, 2009 at 6:01pm

Thanks for the comments, Brenda. As you say, you should never run from a bear, or do anything that would incite predator responses in an animal, and I certainly was not suggesting that. Your admonition to pay attention to your surroundings is the most important piece of advice you can give, as it will often enable you to avoid a confrontation before it ever happens. With moose, they simply don't see all that well, and standing still, especially in dense vegetation can defuse a tense situation, with a moose deciding there's no threat and leaving. With grizzlies, in Glacier and Yellowstone, playing dead is recommended if actually attacked, as a grizzly attack in these areas is almost never predatory but happens as the result of surprising a bear while it is with its cubs, or is concentrating on procuring food. Typically in this area, a bear will attack but back off when the victim ceases struggling and making noise. I've never heard that acting threateningly towards a sow and cubs, or a bear protecting a carcass in this area can end with a good outcome. Most accounts I've come across from this part of the country suggest it actually hastens the charge.

I have been told by bear biologists that some bear behavior in Alaska is quite different than Yellowstone, which is an extremely tough place for a large carnivore like a grizzly to make a living, especially now that some of their major food sources such as white-bark pine (bears eat the seeds that are cached by squirrels) and Yellowstone Cutthroat trout are in serious decline. Bears here become extremely protective of their food sources and have very limited tolerance towards people or other bears, particularly during hyperphagia (the fall feeding frenzy) just before hibernation. At this time they become very aggressive towards anything and everything. It is just not a good idea to act threatening, except as a total last resort. This seems very different than Alaska, where bears can be seen feeding in groups during fish spawning. It seems as though your experience is more in the context of Alaska outside national parks, than in a crowded place like Yellowstone, where the stress on animals is quite different, so their reaction may be quite different.

My point was, that while bear attacks can and do happen in national parks in the lower 48, the number of bear attacks compared to the number of visitors to a place like Yellowstone is so low as to make the risk nearly non-existent. For the average tourist intent on enjoying front country viewpoints, thermal areas and hiking some of the better-known trails in Yellowstone, particularly if they have actually bothered to read the precautions and sensible information in the literature handed out by the park service at the gate, it really is silly to ruin your experience by spending time being afraid of bears. Unfortunately, far too many people apparently can't read, approach too closely and are injured every year, not by bears, but by habituated grazing animals such as bison and elk. However almost no one mentions fear of these animals as a concern when visiting YNP...

Regards.


Brenda Lance said:

Eve,
I would agree that with you about the backing away slowly and quietly when encountering a grizzly when there is really no threat. In these times the bears may not even know you are there for some period of time, giving one a chance to quietly find another route around the location of the bear. However, my advice and teaching about grizzlies came from natives themselves as well as old timers in Alaska. We did not just live in the larger cities of Anchorage or Fairbanks, but spent a majority of time in the southeast and along the Yukon river in the villages where hunting, hiking, and wandering all over the great outdoors were frequent activities. I remember one incident in which I was with one of the village leaders on an outdoor adventure, when we had an encounter with a grizzly. At first, we did treat the event with quietness and attempted to slowly back away, but that grizzly was not going to be so easily fled. This wise Indian took control of the situation, and did just what I had mentioned above...waving hands, yelling, and told me NOT to run or move!!! I was told to pick up a large stick just in case. After two or three minutes the bear decided he did not want anything to do with us, turned around, and left. There are different ways of handling different situations, and both are correct, it is just a matter of when to use what methods. I would agree that one should try the quiet approach first, but when that does not work, you better make some noise! Even with a sow and her cubs. Times of facing down a bear or moose could be inserted frequently among pages of my own stories of growing up in Alaska. There were times when encountering one of these large animals on a trail, a road, or even a bush plane runway found me standing quietly for at least an hour, face to face with a bear or moose. Most of these facedowns resulted in a mama making sure it was ok for her babies to cross over and that I intended no harm towards her or her offspring. One of the greatest pieces of advice ever given was to use your intuition. Get all the information you can, find out all the different possible situations that could take place and how to handle them, but when it comes right down to the moment, use all your intuitions and instincts to help you determine what to do, hopefully relying on the information tucked away in your brain. However, there may not be enough time to stop and think of that information, and intuition must take over. I would agree that there are probably more car related injuries and deaths compared to animal maulings or deaths, but there are also countless stories I could tell about people minding their own business and having a surprise upon them before they knew it. It does happen, and one cannot be naive. Always be on the alert and aware of your surroundings and be prepared. Usually fear of such situations arises when one does not feel they are well educated, experienced, or prepared. As long as these are in place, one will feel as comfortable in the wilderness as they are in their own home.

Permalink Reply by Stu Ryder on July 7, 2010 at 4:56pm

Just joined this and saw the discussion. Black Bear and Grizzlies are in Tetons and Bridger Forests. Saw a couple last fall about 50 mi NE of Jackson Hole and have seen them south of there before. Also, have seen many in AK.
Previous comments are accurate: Store all items that attract them several feet away from tent (30 or more, in vehicle, or tied to rope over 10 ft above ground) : that includes food put in containers , cooking utensils, trash (collect all food trimmings in bags), as well as clothes that may have been soiled with blood, food or cooking smells. AND...the things people do not think of: Chewing gum, chap stick, tooth paste, etc, empty juice or soda containers. Plus, throw dirty dish water well away from camp.
Carry the bear spray, and when in heavy timber, noise is better than quiet. Just think of "Whistle while you walk." They do not like surprises. Bear Spray is required by NPS and BLM in many areas there now, and always buy fresh each year... nothing like saving $40 and then getting eaten by a bear!
Good luck on your trips. They are beautiful animals to watch (from a distance)